ahousekeeper: Տփղիսում

ahousekeeper (

ahousekeeper) wrote,
@ 2007-10-16 13:04:00

Entry tags:

հայեր, հայերեն, սփյուռք, տփղիս

Տփղիսում
Եթե հիշում եք, ազգային մտքի ու հայերեն լեզվի մասին իմ վերջին գրառումները (1 եւ 2) կատաղի վեճերի առիթ դարձան։ Ուզում եմ ձեր ուշադրությունը դարձնել ընկերներիցս մեկի հետեւալ գրառման վրա, ուր նա պատմում է, թե ինչպես որոշ տփղիսահայեր փորձում են դիմադրել ձուլմանը։

Համոզված եմ, որ իրենք էլ են շատ զբաղված մարդիկ, ու կարող էին տասնյակ հիմնված պատճառներ գտնել, թե ինչու չեն կարող այս ամենով զբաղվել։ Այնուամենայնիվ իրենց նեղություն տալիս են ու ժամանակ հատկացնում նաեւ հայերենի համար։

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	zloyan 2007-10-16 09:34 am UTC (link)
	Որպես Թբիլիսիի քաղաքապետի ծոռ, թույլ կտամ ինձ նշել, որ, ինչքան ես գիտեմ, այդ քաղաքի պատմական հայերեն անունը Տփղիս է, այլ ոչ թե Թփղիս :) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	ahousekeeper 2007-10-16 09:56 am UTC (link)
	Կարծեմ Էջմիածնում 1910-ականներին տպագրված գրքում եմ տեսել Թփղիս ձեւը։ Կստուգեմ։ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ahousekeeper 2007-10-16 10:00 am UTC (link)
	Ստուգեցի, իսկապես Տփղիս էր։ Ներողություն եմ խնդրում ապուպապից :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	zloyan 2007-10-16 10:23 am UTC (link)
	De vochinch mer Tiflisn a eli... :) Isk orinak ashxatavor zhoghovrdi mej taracvac a "TLFIZ" tarberaky... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ahousekeeper 2007-10-16 10:31 am UTC (link)
	Ինչքան որ ես եմ լսել. «Թիլֆիզ» :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

ahousekeeper
2007-10-16 10:43 am UTC (link)

Ի դեպ, XIX դարի վերջի ու XX դարի սկզբի հայերի աշխարհահայցքում Թիֆլիսը տեղական նշանակության «աշխարհի կենտրոնի» դեր էր տանում։ Ծնունդով դիլիջանցի տատս, միշտ հատուկ նշում էր, որ Դիլիջանը «ավելի քաղաք» էր, քան Երեւանը, եւ հիմնավորումներից մեկը Թիֆլիսին մոտ լինելն էր։ Նաեւ նշում էր թե իրենց դպրոցի ուսուցիչներից, որն ինչ կրթական հաստատություն էր ավարտել, ու մեծ մասը Ներսիսյան ճեմարանից էին։

Հիշում եմ և մեր պրոլետարական դպրոցում էլ երեխաները ինչ-որ առանձնահատուկ տեղ էին տալիս «Բա դու Թիֆլիս եղե՞լ ես» հարցին։ Մեկ էլ մտքումս մնացել է էլի դպրոցական տարիներից խուլիգանական մի ոտանավոր.

Ազիզ,
նստես «ԳԱԶ»-իս
Գնանք Թիֆլիզ
Ճխտեմ մի թիզ

Ոնց հասկանում եմ դա 50–60-ականներից եկող «շոֆեռական ֆոլկլորի» ինչ-որ արտացոլումներ էին :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

i appreciate when people speak directly, btw

lycaeus
2007-10-17 11:30 pm UTC (link)

get off that snobbish horse, groul--you really don't know what you're talking about. it's obvious that life is much more laid back in armenia, russia and georgia than in megapolises such as l.a. when you have to sit in traffic to run simple errands and have much more involvement in any aspect of life. the only way not to live this lifestlye is to move from here. but what gets me--is that you justify a human fault (by getting into somebody's life) with a national fault (letting the language rust, mind the logic with many things about that, too). i've been knocking on that door ever since this discussion came up, but nobody seems to answer, for all means are justified to make your nationally righteous point. i have personal priorities and routines that you may see no value in (yoga, healthy cooking, time in nature), yet i find them essential for every human being. i have a huge problem with armenians leading and cultivating unhealthy lifestyle--heart attack by the age of 50 is a normal thing for our culture (hope you don't mind that i still claim it), but i would never, in the right mind, allow myself to dissect my fellow armenian's schedule or priorities and tell them what i think of it--even though what can be more important, really. yet a fellow armenian feels free to dissect my life on matter much more questionable and opinionated (since i do believe that if a person has the intention of preserving the culture in the next generation, it is much more important if he reads well or not becaue, as it is the case with many armenians here, they read allright, but their kids don't even know the alphabet). you still fail to see anything wrong here?

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	Re: i appreciate when people speak directly, btw ahousekeeper 2007-10-18 06:11 am UTC (link)
	> you really don't know what you're talking about Yeah, of course... Now, why are you reacting like this all the time? You have made your choice, you don't need to make excuses, do you? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: i appreciate when people speak directly, btw

lycaeus
2007-10-18 07:32 am UTC (link)

>>>>>Yeah, of course...
sounds like a helluva argument.

>>>>>Now, why are you reacting like this all the time?
i'm Responding, not reacting. responding to "Համոզված եմ, որ իրենք էլ են շատ զբաղված մարդիկ, ու կարող էին տասնյակ հիմնված պատճառներ գտնել, թե ինչու չեն կարող այս ամենով զբաղվել։ Այնուամենայնիվ իրենց նեղություն տալիս են ու ժամանակ հատկացնում նաեւ հայերենի համար։", obviously.

>>>>>>>>You have made your choice, you don't need to make excuses, do you?
because you keep on implying that it is an 'excuse,' which i find quite offensive. and trust me, if not my general opinion of you as of a decent human being, my Response to that would've been much less dandier.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: i appreciate when people speak directly, btw

ahousekeeper
2007-10-18 08:48 am UTC (link)

I will be writing about assimilation, losing the language, etc all the time. If you want to take it personally every time you see a new post, it's your choice. It is not ONLY about you, moreover I don't think that you are the PRIMARY target audience. However judging from your reaction (or call it "response") it touches some strings in you too. Which is not that bad if you ask me.

The issue of assimilation disturbs me a lot, I consider it very important (much more important than genocide recognition, for example and not the less important than the Artsakh issue). And I am going to write in a manner which I find the most appropriate to make people think about the subjects they try to ignore subconsiously. Even if that sounds provocative to some, want it or not.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: i appreciate when people speak directly, btw

lycaeus
2007-10-19 11:53 pm UTC (link)

amen, write away--my intention was not to shut you up but to say what i think of such attitude. i know i'm not the primary target audience, i realize that this whole thing started for the purposes of undermining certain public figure (who is an idiot regardless of the issue), but the generalizations you make are a) questionable (to be politically correct) and b) unethical, and end up undermining your attitude rather than anything else.
this didn't touch strings in me--it merely pissed me off. however, you have touched many cultural strings in me by much more noble means that this, and i'm sure that if not for you, i wouldn't be exposed to much information and i'm grateful for that and always stressed the importance of what you're doing. that touches strings, not attitude and arrogant conclusions.
i agree that assimilation, considering number of armenains living aboard, is a vital issue. i don't know about other countries, but in the states i don't see much assimilation. armenians stick together for God knows how many generations already, speak the language even when a few generations haven't even been to armenia, and if anything, often times don't have much regard for other cultures rather than their own when it comes to their immediate environment. when i was in high school, most of my armenian classmates knew how to read and write in armenian. heck, my 'second' niece (my cousin's dauther that is) is attending an armenian school that's a town away so she could learn armenian--nasa would be envious of the scheduling it takes to get that kid to school and back every day, with three generations, parents-uncles-cousins involved (yes, yes, i know, there's no such thing as 'busy' in your opinion, yet it's a reality of life for them). if that's not going out of your way to preserve your culture abroad, then well..
it's not assimilation that's harming armenian diaspora in the states, it's self-destruction, and this self-destruction is rooted within the culture. i hear of yet another armenian getting killed here and there for mostly materialistic reasons (and not from bad life), people are dying from strokes and heart attacks way before usual age, and two packs a day is a national sport while diabetes and messed up blood pressure is a norm of life. it comes from the culture within, and overall the values of armenians here very well represent values of armenians in armenia, yet nobody seems to have major problem with that. by observing the community now, i know that armenians will stick together for decades to come, but will it be a community that harvests meaningful people, or bites its own tail like the uroboros? what's good in it if it preserves the language but becomes something neither of us would be too proud of?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: i appreciate when people speak directly, btw lycaeus 2007-10-20 12:01 am UTC (link)
	the irony of life is that during past few weeks things changed as much as that armenian history and language are actually going to be one of the focuses of my 'official' education (long story). (Reply to this)(Parent)

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