ahousekeeper ([info]ahousekeeper) wrote,
@ 2008-03-04 16:25:00
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Entry tags:2008, armenia, ltp, riots, yerevan

Online petition RE: March 1st Riots in Yerevan, Armenia


http://www.petitiononline.com/yerevan/petition.html

PLEASE DISTRIBUTE THE LINK AND SIGN THE PETITION
IF YOU ARE AN ARMENIAN CITIZEN
=========================================================

We, the undersigned citizens of Armenia not affiliated with any government bodies or with the marginal opposition groups, state the following:

The events of March 1, 2008 in Yerevan, Armenia are an attempt of a rebellion, which had nothing to do with peaceful opposition actions. Witnesses confirm that the police and the authorities in general refrained from resorting to force as long as possible. The state authorities patiently waited for 9 days for the unauthorized demonstration to end, but the marginalized part of the opposition led by Levon Ter-Petrosyan continued illegal activities with calls to overthrow government with revolutionary means. This was a Gandhi on surface, Bolshevist in essence "singing and dancing revolution" to quote Ter-Petrosyan himself. The actions of Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s supporters ended in deaths (both among the protesters and police forces), burning and looting — something unseen even during the protests of 1988, when hundreds of thousands of Armenians were taking part in the demonstrations for the freedom of Nagorno Karabakh.

We strongly believe that now Levon Ter-Petrosyan is a direct threat to the statehood of Armenia.

The feeling of revenge, personal business interests and affiliations are the motives behind Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s scandalous comeback. While we criticize our government for many weaknesses and faults we strongly believe that Levon Ter-Petrosyan is the last person in the world to be interested in strengthening democracy in Armenia. The reasons for us to think so are:

1. Ter-Petrosyan was the first leader of the Republic of Armenia to practice large scale electoral fraud (elections of 1996, Vazgen Manukian being the real winner).

2. Ter-Petrosyan was the first one to use army against the protesters (after falsifying the results of presidential elections in 1996).

3. Ter-Petrosyan was the first to suppress free speech, by closing newspapers (some of us remember quite well policemen throwing computers out of the office windows of the “Yerkir” daily).

4. Ter-Petrosyan was the first leader in the Republic of Armenia to shut down a political party and throw its members into jail (the infamous “Dro” case).

5. Ter-Petrosyan was the very person under whose wing the oligarchic families were born. Actually all the current Armenian oligarchs became rich during Ter-Petrosyan’s rule. Moreover, while his supporters criticize oligarchs, the major donor for the Ter-Petrosyan’s campaign is another oligarch.

6. Ter-Petrosyan was the person who brought to power current Armenian authorities — who are now being called criminals and bandits by the supporters of the ex-president.

7. Yet the most important... Ter-Petrosyan is the very person who killed Armenians’ belief in justice, law and freedom of speech.

With everything said above, we urge our compatriots to stay sober and do not fall for the disinformation and PR-campaign started by Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s supporters.

We call on the government of Armenia to conduct thorough investigation and bring to fair trial all instigators of disturbances and civil unrest. With enough evidence of complicity immunity should be lifted from Ter Petrosyan himself. In true democracy no one can be above the law.



(Post a new comment)


[info]wodedao
2008-03-04 01:13 pm UTC (link)
Мне кажется, что стоило бы добавить также больше о нынешней ситуации. Далее, для массовости наверное имеет смысл собирать подписи и централизованно. Выставить на каком-нибудь специализированном на этом сайте.

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[info]wodedao
2008-03-04 01:22 pm UTC (link)
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/
http://www.petitiononline.com/

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[info]ahousekeeper
2008-03-04 01:28 pm UTC (link)
http://www.petitiononline.com/yerevan/petition.html

Сейчас сделаю ссылку виднее.

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[info]wodedao
2008-03-04 01:29 pm UTC (link)
Уже! Спасибо.

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[info]hiero
2008-03-04 01:31 pm UTC (link)
Подписал. А как она отсылается, куда? Или просто лежит и ждет, пока власти ее сами найдут?

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[info]ahousekeeper
2008-03-04 01:55 pm UTC (link)
Когда будет собрано достаточное количество подписей, просто перешлем в крупные западные СМИ, организации, ну и нашим властям конечно.

Правда, боюсь, что надо будет для наших переводить на армянский ;)

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[info]lazy_creator
2008-03-04 01:36 pm UTC (link)
т.е. это относится только к гражданам Армении? проживающим в Армении гражданам? проживающим в Армении гражданам Армении?

и еще, не стоит ли в конце также определенно отметить о возможности привлечения к ответственности представителей правительства, раз уж "no one can be above the law"?

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[info]ahousekeeper
2008-03-04 01:57 pm UTC (link)
Относится к гражданам Армении вообще, вне зависимости от места проживания.

Что касается правительства, то фраза «We call on the government of Armenia to conduct thorough investigation and bring to fair trial all instigators of disturbances and civil unrest.» охватывает всех. Левон Тер-Петросян упомянут отдельно, потому что у него, как у экс-президента (в отличие, скажем, от милицейского полковника), есть неприкосновенность.

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[info]lazy_creator
2008-03-04 02:12 pm UTC (link)
OK, спасибо!

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[info]mojuba
2008-03-04 02:41 pm UTC (link)
"Witnesses confirm that the police and the authorities in general refrained from resorting to force as long as possible."

This is a lie, Karen. The Govt. provoked "civil unrest" first by beating up peaceful demonstrators in Opera square and random people in surroundings as witnesses and victims say, among which were many people you and me both know, some being our LJ "friends", for example. Can you believe any one of them had guns? Piece of nonsense.

I personally know many demonstrators, they are decent people rebelling for an IDEA. Like it or not, there is an alternative view on what's going on so far in Armenia. You can't defend democracy by suppressing others' views, it's a recursive nonsense.

So, if it turns out that the cause of clashes was the Government itself, how can you "call on the government of Armenia" to investigate etc.?

And I don't understand this "IF YOU ARE AN ARMENIAN CITIZEN" - why is that?

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[info]ahousekeeper
2008-03-04 02:54 pm UTC (link)
This is NOT a lie. This is something that I can confirm and tens of people whom I personally know and trust can confirm under the oath. Please, be careful with the words.

> I personally know many demonstrators, they are
> decent people rebelling for an IDEA.

Too bad they let Levon Ter-Petrosyan and his team to take over their brains. The government of Armenia was very patient in this case. Too patient, if you ask me.

> And I don't understand this "IF YOU ARE AN
> ARMENIAN CITIZEN" - why is that?

Because this is something that is of a primary concern for the citizens of the Republic of Armenia. I prefer it to be signed by the citizens of Armenia, not the hysterical housewives from Glendale claiming publicly that back in 1992 there was not cold and dark in Armenia.

In any case noone here is forcing you to sign anything.

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[info]mojuba
2008-03-04 03:13 pm UTC (link)
> This is NOT a lie. This is something that I can confirm and tens
> of people whom I personally know and trust can confirm under the
> oath. Please, be careful with the words.

You personally and people you know can confirm that those in tents had guns? Under the oath?

> Too bad they let Levon Ter-Petrosyan and his team to take over
> their brains.

Too bad you are so sure your brain can think independently. This is not an offense, it's just that very very few people in the world, if any, can think absolutely independently. What we think is purely a product of what we know plus some subconscious processes that we are not aware of. Because of this, you can't say "you are stupid, only I know what's right".

> The government of Armenia was very patient in this case. Too
> patient, if you ask me.

This is curious. Using armed forces against the Govt.'s political opposition is one of the worst things that can happen. I can congratulate us, Armenians, that we are now rolled back to the age of feudalism, although that happened long before this rebellion began.

> I prefer it to be signed by the citizens of Armenia, not the
> hysterical housewives from Glendale claiming publicly that back
> in 1992 there was not cold and dark in Armenia.

Are you saying the entire Diaspora consists of housewives in Glendale who think etc.?

> In any case noone here is forcing you to sign anything.

Of course it's my choice, it's just that you use the information blockade to spread obviously biased information and you give references to biased witnesses. I don't see any attempt to be objective here.

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Before we continue.
[info]ahousekeeper
2008-03-04 03:59 pm UTC (link)
> You personally and people you know can confirm
> that those in tents had guns? Under the oath?

Before we continue, please show me where exactly in the text I claim, that the people in the tents had guns.

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Re: Before we continue.
[info]mojuba
2008-03-04 04:04 pm UTC (link)
You didn't say that probably, but that could be the only reason for stopping their protest. If it was peaceful, why should Govt. disperse them?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

So you confirm I didn't say anything like that
[info]ahousekeeper
2008-03-04 04:30 pm UTC (link)
Right?

Before we proceed I would like to ask you to delete or edit your initial comment so it reflects the real situation. Then we will continue.

Հով ջան, ես հաստատ գիտեմ, որ դու շատ լավ տրամաբանության տեր մարդ ես։ Խնդրում եմ ուղղակի ջղայնացած ժամանակ մի գրի, որ ես էլ ստիպված չլինեմ նախադասություն առ նախադասություն վերլուծեմ ու ինչ-որ բաներ պահանջեմ քեզանից։

Շատ տհաճ է սուտ խոսալու մեջ կեղծ մեղադրանքներ ստանալ մի մարդուց, որը ինձ բավական լավ է ճանաչոմ։ Ես իմ օրագրում սուտ չեմ գրել ու չեմ գրում ու դու դա շատ լավ գիտես։

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: So you confirm I didn't say anything like that
[info]mojuba
2008-03-04 04:49 pm UTC (link)
Karen jan, I first said "Can you believe any one of them had guns?" and that was a valid question, although it was emotional, because I was just asking if you believe it or not.

As for the "lie". That sentence I called a lie is the official Govt position, and I have grounds, really good grounds not to trust the Govt in that, particularly. The Govt says the protesters had guns and they planned a coup - and THAT was the reason they brutally cleared the Opera square. What we are talking about here is that it all started from a false assumption and what happened the following night was a direct result of that. It is very important to prove this statement or to disprove it in order to understand what's going on with all of us.

As for your Armenian part, I'll give you a symmetric answer :) in Armenian, it's just I have to get home where I have an Armenian keyboard.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: So you confirm I didn't say anything like that
[info]ahousekeeper
2008-03-04 07:13 pm UTC (link)
> Karen jan, I first said "Can you believe any one of
> them had guns?" and that was a valid question, although
> it was emotional, because I was just asking if you
> believe it or not.

Hov, nothing is said about guns in the petition. As for the rest, check this:
http://ahousekeeper.livejournal.com/183609.html

You may or may not believe police videos, it's OK, but check what Levon Ter-Petrosyan says at A1+. By the way, I would appreciate if someone give me a working link to that text at A1+.

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Мне не нравится
[info]astartha
2008-03-05 06:58 am UTC (link)
...вот что:
PLEASE DISTRIBUTE THE LINK AND SIGN THE PETITION
IF YOU ARE AN ARMENIAN CITIZEN

Это значит, что все те, кто с этим по каким-то причинам не согласен, или голосовал за ЛТП, или просто ему верит - автоматически исключается из ряда армянских граждан ? Их бы еще врагами народа объявить.

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Re: Мне не нравится
[info]astartha
2008-03-05 06:59 am UTC (link)
>We strongly believe that now Levon Ter-Petrosyan is a direct threat to the statehood of Armenia.
а тот, кто в это не верит, кто не согласен с написавшими это - тоже не гражданин Армении ?

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[info]ahousekeeper
2008-03-05 02:53 pm UTC (link)
Возможно я не очень хорошо написал, но ничего такого не подразумевается. Речь идёт о том, что петицию могут подписывать только граждане РА.

В отличии от левоновцев, прямо заявивших «кто сейчас не с нами, тот подонок».

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[info]armblogs
2008-03-05 01:44 pm UTC (link)
Ваш пост добавлен в АрмЛенту. Его можно увидеть по адресу http://www.miacum.ru/gazeta/cat/armlenta
Если вы не желаете видеть этот свой пост в АрмЛенте, то отпишитесь, пожалуйста, здесь http://armblogs.livejournal.com/1611.html
Если по каким-то причинам вы хотели бы удалить свой ЖЖ из проекта Armblogs, отпишитесь, пожалуйста, здесь http://armblogs.livejournal.com/796.html
Спасибо за понимание!
С налучшими пожеланиями, Miacum team

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